By Arnel Mirasol
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| Eyes of Love |
Our discussion revolved mainly about the paintings I did of nude female models featured in the girlie magazines I kept at home. Kirsten wondered why I was doing only female nudes. She asked me to add male nude paintings to my repertoire, to which I answered that it's a big no-no for me, because naked male bodies disgust me. Apparently, she overlooked , the "hahaha..." I end my answer with to indicate that I'm just being facetious. She assailed my saying that, because she must have thought my disgust real. She quickly presumed that I was homophobic, or a hater of males. ( Kirsten and I were both wrong in our understanding of the word. Homophobia actually means fear or hatred of homosexuals. My apologies.) Well, what else should I say. I'm a true blue straight male who don't exactly relish painting models with dangling, or, God forbid!, tumescent sexual paraphernalia.
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| Tangerine Dreams |
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| Luscious Reds |
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| Perfumed Persuasion |
She next told me that she can't quite believed that I see nothing beautiful in Michelangelo's naked male sculptures. Well, which artist won't be entranced by them. In fact, when I was still in art school, Michelangelo's paintings of powerful males were the first art works I tried to emulate in art school.
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| The Cock Charmer |
Her supposedly observant eye then focused on a female nude painting I did - that of Marilyn Monroe in high heels - Maria Lina Desnuda (below right) She remarked that Marilyn shouldn't be so glamorized because she led a sad life. She may have achieved fame and fortune, but she in truth felt exploited. That's why she succumbed to the lure of drugs and was so depressed that she eventually committed suicide. How true and how sad.
But what Kirsten said next floored me. Here, unedited, are her exact words: " I ask you paint a few of her DEPRESSED, LONELY, DRUNK ALONE DESPERATE let's paint REAL portraits of who she was for once! Paint THOSE pictures, not this trite predictable made up crap of a "fairy tale" of what women never should want to be unless they want to be MISERABLE AND DIE YOUNG." The nerve! Who does she think she is? She has no right whatsoever to dictate to me what I should paint next. It's none of her business if I want to paint a thousand portraits of a glamorized and orgasmic Marilyn Monroe oozing with sex appeal and joy.
Kirsten opinions on my art doesn't count. She may affixed to her name all those highfalutin titles, but still, I won't consider her "art criticism" valid and relevant: because I can see at a glance that her knowledge about art is sparse and threadbare. The only opinions about art I highly esteem and put a high premium on are those of my peers- my fellow artists; those of the art critics, art dealers, art collectors, and most especially those of my family and friends, because I know that they always mean well even if they negatively criticized my artworks.
If she wanted more male nudes painted, I, a male painter, shouldn't be the one she should pester. She should ask the female and gay painters she knows to do it for her. Maybe, she should also request the best painter nowadays of pin-up style female nudes, Olivia de Berardinis, to cease painting those naked women in porn poses and instead start painting male nudes from now on. And Kirsten should also stop from lumping us painters of female nudes with pornographers. Nude female art is not pornography. The biggest pornographers are all there in the US. It would be best perhaps if she send Hugh Hefner, Bob Guccione and the other porn moguls there a facebook message each sometime. They might appreciate it and may add her perhaps to their list of friends. They'd be thrilled having a feminist as friend.
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| Pin-up art by Olivia de Berardinis |
Arguments, Rebuttals, Ripostes, and Comments:
KIRSTEN ANDERBERG: SO now only women and "gay painters" should paint nude males he says, while saying he is not homophobic!!!!!!! LMAO!!! Do you understand what homophobic IS?! You are it, babe. Your FEAR of male nudes is BIZARRE! And again, you expect me, a woman, to look at your female nudes adoringly, or are you PAINTING ONLY FOR MALE VIEWERS?! That follows your logic. If you, a male, cannot paint male nudes and only female nudes due to your homophobia and heterosexuality, then that means only men and gay women would be your audience, right? And yet you seem to act as tho heterosexual women would like your work. Why? Why would heterosexual women like your work but het men not like male nudes? Do you see how your homophobia has skewed your logic? So, fine, you are painting women nudes ONLY FOR MALES AND GAY WOMEN - that is your intended audience. OK. So logically then you think only gay men, I suppose, and het women should paint nude males...sigh...so old school...and funny how you paint and write re oppression yet YOU ARE THE OPPRESSOR IN THIS INSTANCE AND ARE TOO FEARFUL TO EVEN SEE IT! April 17 at 2:42am
KIRSTEN ANDERBERG: I also did not do such a thing as to lump all nude into porn!! NOT AT ALL! I said which ONES felt like porn and PRAISED the nudes that did not reek of porn to which you responded the ones I noted as porn were in fact COPIED FROM PORN! And the one nude I liked that I said was not porny you said you had altered the face of and I asked if that was perhaps what troubled me re the other porn ones was the look on the faces = porn and submission to who we know we are here to serve! Why are you now lying?! I said I am cool with sex and nudity just not treating women as the only secxual beings, which you have re discarding all male sexuality due to your homophobia and look you ass, I have written Hugh Heffnet and complained and have the letterback from him framed as it was so precocious. You are now saying I am not into nudes, which I am more positive to them than you as I approve of male and female nudes,and I told you I run the vulva museum so you are just trying to manipulate things now...I am prosex,pronudity and feminist and anti-porn. I am fine with respectful eroticism of women, what I am not cool with is men like you using women as blow up dolls and MEAT. April 17 at 2:47am
KIRSTEN ANDERBERG: You are obviously homophobic, you have proven that. You obviously have serious issues with needing to reduce women to meat, as I told you I was fine with sex women and nudes but felt some of your work oppressed women for men and some did not and pointed out the differences. It was YOU who then tried to make this into some weird thing where I was saying nudes are porn which I never said. I did not say male nudes like Michaelangelo made were porn why do you assume all women nudes would then be deemed porn by me?! It seems my dear, that I know as much about art, in the end, as you, as you seem to be oblivious to politics beyond Patriarchy and if you want your audience to be just artists with a higher education level than yours, or to only paint for gay women and males, go for it. If you want straight women for an audience, or people without Harvard degrees in art to look at your work, or any of the gay community to give you the time of day, your attitudes would need to change, more than your art subjects. I am not interested in looking at your work anymore knowing how homophobic and sexist you are. Good luck with your political attitudes as they overshadow your art. I can find the women you painted from Penthouse and Playboy in the flesh in the original mags if I wanted that crap so not sure why I would waste time on your work at this point...You should perhaps begin advertising in gay women venues for your art since you seem to believe that is the only audience in women you could have...due to your homophobia standards re men and you. April 17 at 2:55am
ISAGANI FUENTES: whoaaaa !!!...............it's so hot in the Philippines !!! April 17 at 6:45am
ISAGANI FUENTES: got to keep a comfortable distance friends...nose bleed ako ...BYE !!! ;-) April 17 at 6:53am ·
ROMY RENDON: pal, don't you worry about that woman,(kirsten), she got nothing to do on her spare time lol.. April 17 at 11:32am
ROMY RENDON: keep doing what you do best, we love your painting... April 17 at 11:34am
BUDS CONVOCAR: my oh my! what controversy a nude sketch could make??? the dictionary defines homophobia as: homophobia |ˌhōməˈfōbēə|nounan extreme and irrational aversion to homosexuality and homosexual people. Question: if i stay away from the company or presence of gay people but i don't necessarily feel aversion towards them, am i considered a homophobic person?April 17 at 2:38pm
ARNEL MIRASOL: Hello, Kirsten. You confused the words "not wanting to" with "hating". You see things in black and white. You seem to be unaware of the word "indifferent", which is actually my attitude to male nude art at present. I have no special liking for nor dislike for it, which means that I'm indifferent to it. I have been painting for more than thirty years, and I have mentioned that the first master I emulated was Michelangelo. I've drawn several male nudes, after his style, to familiarize myself with the contours of the male anatomy. It was just an exercise, just as my painting several female nudes was only an exercise. Nothing political or sexual to it. I just wanted to show to my peers that I am also competent in painting nudes. I have said before and I'm saying it again that I only copied from the girlie mags because I can't afford to hire my own models. April 17 at 2:40pm
ARNEL MIRASOL: The world of nature is complex and is composed of many objects, creatures and elements which would interest painters. You can't seem to believe that I'm through with Michelangelo. That's not an impossibility, Kirsten: because when we artists feel that we have exhausted a subject, we move on, and paint other subjects. The practice of art is a life of never ending practice. We like to try our hands in painting different subject matter, sometimes to sort of challenge ourselves and perk up our interests in art making. Artists get jaded and bored too in what they are doing. April 17 at 2:51pm ·
ARNEL MIRASOL: But, I must say that we both erred in our understanding of the word "homophobia". It actually doesn't mean fear of males or male nudes, but rather fear of homosexuals. I checked with the dictionary. I apologize for that error- just human. April 17 at 2:54pm
ARNEL MIRASOL: We go back to that word "oppression" again. I have said before that oppression connotes the persecution, the enslavement and the forcing of people to do something against their will. I haven't done any of those things when I painted those female nudes, so where is the oppression there? You are the one doing the oppressing when you continue to taunt me into painting something I don't want to paint. That attitude to me is authoritarian, dictatorial and fascistic- words which actually mean the same thing, hahaha.... April 17 at 3:02pm
ARNEL MIRASOL: I have mentioned already that I didn't do those female nude paintings mainly for profit, because if I did, I would have baulked from giving them away - which I actually did in the end. I gave them to friends as a gesture of friendship or to reciprocate favors previously done me. The real "artist-profiteers" are there in your own backyard. People like Olivia Berardinis, who I'm sure have already raked in enormous sums for her paintings of naked females wearing high heels, black stockings and hats. I'd like to ask if you've already sent her a facebook message denouncing her for her tasteless choice of subject matter, unseemly fixation with females in porn poses and "attire", and insatiable appetite for monetary gains and profit. April 17 at 3:14pm
ARNEL MIRASOL: That's exactly the impression I got when you wrote, "I ASK you paint"- that you are asking me to paint male nudes instead of Marilyn Monroe and other female models. Look, you even emphasize the word "ask" by capitalizing it. Now you are telling me that it probably was a typo. April 17 at 3:18pm
ARNEL MIRASOL: The reason I did paintings indicting dictators was precisely because they were the real oppressors. They tortured, killed, imprisoned, and brainwashed people into doing something against their will. We painters of nude females never did that. So I'm baffled why you insisted on accusing us as oppressors of females. April 17 at 3:22pm
RIC ICO: Go, go, go, Arnel! We will support you. April 17 at 3:27pm
RIC ICO: It's for artsake, not a political issue! April 17 at 3:28pm
ARNEL MIRASOL: I have always thought that feminism as a movement have already petered out, because the way I see it, women discrimination and abuse is no longer the norm here in the Philippines, the US, and other western countries. Especially here in the Philippines- because the way I see it, Filipino women have always been empowered. Many Filipino sociologists even categorized Filipino society as matriarchal. And one wit even declared that most Filipino husbands are "under the sayas", or hen-pecked: to which I can only retort, how true, how true, hahaha...There are of course isolated cases, but as I have said they are no longer the norm, because they are no longer a policy of the state, nor the tradition of society. April 17 at 3:29pm
ARNEL MIRASOL: If you really want to make a mark and be really useful, I suggest that you go to countries where the women are really oppressed, discriminated against, and deprived of their rights, and hurl there your umbrage, vitriol, and all the invectives you can muster. I would be very interested to know what will happen to you next. April 17 at 3:33pm
NONA RUST: Freedom of expression...it is in the constitution... April 17 at 3:36pm
TRISTAN BAMBA: weeewww,,, April 17 at 3:46pm
ARNEL MIRASOL: I never said that I paint only for highly-trained artists. What I said was the only people whose opinions I valued and put a high premium on are my peers- my fellow artists; the art critics, the art dealers, and art collectors, and family and friends. I didn't say that you can't look at, analyze and critique my work, only that I won't put a high premium on your views on it, that I consider your opinions on art worthless because you keep on insisting that your feminist beliefs be the standard or criteria for evaluating art- which shouldn't be the case. Paintings should be valuated on their adherence to the rules of composition, color harmonies, and technical competence. If a painting overstepped the boundaries of good taste, then, sue the artist. And as far as I know, only Egon Schiele was imprisoned for pornographic art. Which some of his artworks really are, because in several of them he showed naked women spreading wide their labias. April 17 at 3:52pm
ARNEL MIRASOL: You twisted my words again, Kirsten. I never said that only females and gay men should paint nude. I only said that instead of harassing me into painting male nudes, ask instead your female and gay painter friends to do it for you. Where's the homophobia in that? (Incidentally, we both erred in defining the word homophobia; it actually means, fear of homosexuals.) I repeat, where's the homophobia in that? My suggestion that you ask instead your gay painter friends to paint male nudes does not in any way suggest that I hate them. Frankly, I cannot see the connection, because I'm sure that gays would actually relish and be proud of their male nude paintings and their male nude art acquisitions. An attitude I heartily approve of because art is art, no matter what the subject matter is. There are several painters who were gays or suspected to be one, who I deeply admire: there was Leonardo da Vinci, for one, and Michelangelo. There were also John Singer Sargent, Paul Cadmus, and Andy Warhol. April 17 at 4:11pm
ARNEL MIRASOL: You might not know it, Kirsten, but that is actually the case. Since we painters cannot hope to please everybody, we paint only for a certain audience. Something like positioning or finding a niche in marketing lingo. Now, now, I'm sure that you'll denounce me again for being concerned with profit, but I guess I have to tell you that for painters, painting is a livelihood like any other. I'm not a mere dilettante who paints merely as a hobby, to pass away the time. Painters have to eat like any other human being.
Besides, Kirsten, I suppose that your saying that only men and gay women would like nude female art is way off the mark. Nothing could be more wrong, as witness the comments in this thread of heterosexual females who expressed their admiration for the depiction of the nude female form in art. Some even volunteered the information that they would actually be honored and delighted if some painter invited them to pose for them in the nude.
That attitude on posing in the nude for painters goes a long way back. I have written somewhere in my pages that two duchesses, the Duchess of Urbino and the Duchess of Alba have actually posed naked for Titian and Goya respectively. And I must add that nude art models are even honored and immortalized when they posed for painters. Take the case of Manet's model for two of his paintings, Le Dejeuner Sur L'Herbe (Breakfast on the Grass), and Olympia. If she hadn't posed for those paintings, we wouldn't have known that a certain woman named Victorine existed. April 17 at 4:34pm
ARNEL MIRASOL: Kirsten, just because something is copied from a girlie magazine doesn't mean that that something is porn already. One of my painting you praised, the Tangerine Dream, is also from Penthouse Magazine. I presumed that you liked it because the girl's pose is pretty coy and not blatantly erotic. Well, for your information, that very girl actually had other photos in the same issue of that magazine showing her in vulgar poses, with her thighs wide open and her genitals in full display. I didn't select those vulgar photos precisely because I know that they went beyond the limits of good taste.
It's all a matter of perception, Kirsten. What to you would be porn, like naked women with high heels, wouldn't be so to others. For example, that Marilyn in heels painting: you consider that porn when others don't see it as such. In fact, I suspect that now, many would consider that picture as pretty wholesome, because of the porn explosion in the internet nowadays, where not only showbiz starlets, but even ordinary people, rich and poor, men and women and gays, are the performers, and who actually give the impression that they are having fun doing those hardcore sexual acts.
Yes, you may have approve of one nude painting of mine, but you have condemned the others as porn merely because the women are shown wearing heels, displaying pubic hairs or showing inviting expressions on their faces. (Well, what expression would you like these models to show - would it be more okay if they bare their teeth like fangs and act like roaring lions?) You have labelled these pretty innocuous pictures as porn while other people have not - so, what other conclusion can I make except that you equate nude women paintings with pornography.April 17 at 5:07pm
ARNEL MIRASOL: We have both presumed that homophobic means a person who hate males. Both of us are wrong there, because the word homophobia actually means hatred of homosexuals. You said that I'm a male hater, as per our previous understanding of the word. But I supposed I have to ask this: wouldn't that label more precisely describe you? I am of the impression that, deep in your heart, you nurtured a deep hatred for males, that you consider most of what we do as oppression and abuse of women. You even assert that patriarchy is a bad thing, when not all fathers and male leaders are abusive and tyrannical. There are also many benevolent, nurturing, kind, impartial, and soft-hearted males, in case you didn't know.
As to your saying that you are no longer interested in looking at my art anymore, well, all I would say is "good riddance". I never invited you, in the first place. You were the one who just barged in into my page and even offered to interview me. I wouldn't want to be interviewed by a person who is so touchy, and who immediately goes ballistic and belligerent whenever I defend my art and expressed a contrary opinion. You have intruded into my page and inflicted on us your anti-male politics. Better stick with your political agenda, Kirsten. You'd be more useful doing that. April 17 at 5:36pm
BUDS CONVOCAR: way to go arnel!!!April 17 at 5:49pm ·
ARNEL MIRASOL: Wheww, that was tiring! Hahaha...Napagod ako ng husto sa babaeng yon (oops, baka iba na naman ang pakahulugan doon, ah, hahaha...) mga kaibigan kaya mamaya na ako magko-comment at magpapasalamat sa mga reactions nyo. Iidlip muna ako, para meron akong powers pag naglamay ako mamaya sa tinatapos kong alamat illustration. I'll be back. I love you all!April 17 at 5:56pm
ARNEL MIRASOL: @Benneth. Thank you very much for seeing my point. You're so right. Nude paintings really honor and immortalize the models. But the painter should maybe ask first the permission of your husband before inviting you to pose for him, hahaha...Just joiking. :-)April 18 at 4:50pm
ARNEL MIRASOL: @Beth. Tama. Dahil nga siguro sa tradisyunal na ang female nude art. Ever since marami nang ganyang painting kaya maganda na sa paningin. Nasanay na ang viewers. Thank you very much.April 18 at 4:54pm ·
ARNEL MIRASOL:@Tzerelin. You're so right. That's what I told Kirsten. The images I painted may have come from girlie magazines, but I chose to paint only those which doesn't overstepped the limits of good taste- those which are not vulgar or obscene. But the problem with her is she equates even the wearing of heels by naked women as pornographic already, when some viewers saw it as cute or even beautiful. She even labelled me as a man-hater and sexist for not wanting to paint male nudes and delighting instead in doing only female ones. Frankly, I can't see the connection. She boasted of being a law graduate and writer, but I must say, that her logic stinks. It is downright stupid. Thank you for admiring my work, Tzerelin, and also for encouraging me to paint on and not mind the unfair criticisms that may come my way.April 18 at 5:11pm
ARNEL MIRASOL: Hello, Romy. She is one pretentious lady. I've read on her wall that she's now very busy writing her 9th book, entitled, "How to Apply to Law School". Why, the very title sounds stupid to me. There is everything wrong in that title. I guess, what she means is "How to Apply for Admittance to Law School". Now, which person with average IQ, who's thinking of entering law school, would buy that book, when they can make inquiries by just calling, emailing or seeing personally the college registrar or anyone in-charge of admissions? Let me just see her submit that book to publishers here; I'm sure that she'll be swamped with a deluge of rejection slips. Thanks, Romy, for liking what I do and always being there to give me moral support.April 18 at 5:31pm
ARNEL MIRASOL: @ Buds. Kirsten and I both erred in our understanding of the word homophobia- we both thought that it means a hatred of males. Yesterday, I checked with the dictionary before going online, and I found out that one of its meaning is fear of homosexuals. Thank you for your also doing a research on the word, hahaha...Well, if you stay away from the company of gays, Kirsten would definitely label you, pronto, as homophobic or a hater of homosexuals. That's how her mind works. She sees things only in black and white. If your not for, your against. Which rather surprised me, because she claimed that she's a writer, and writers should be aware of the word "indifferent"- which means, not mark by a special liking for nor dislike for something. Indifferent is the word between for and against.April 18 at 5:45pm
ARNEL MIRASOL: Hi, Ric, thanks for acting as my one-man cheering squad, hahaha...Kirsten Anderberg is a political fanatic and man-hater at heart- I understand the type. Self-righteous fanatics, if ever they capture power, will surely be the tyrants of tomorrow, and will surely do what Hitler did when he branded avant-garde artists as degenerates, prompting them to flee Europe to save their lives.April 18 at 5:52pm
ARNEL MIRASOL: Thanks, Nona. Yes- freedom of expression is a constitutional right. But Kirsten Anderberg, who's supposedly a law graduate, doesn't seem to know that.April 18 at 5:54pm
BUDS CONVOCAR: Kirsten, I miss you!!! Hehehe!!!April 19 at 1:05am
ARNEL MIRASOL: Buds. I also miss her, Buds. I actually enjoyed our debate- it was fun. I always get a euphoric rush every time I succeeded in pricking the a_ _ of pompous people like her. Totoo nyan, ang daya nya ( The truth was , she didn't play fair). You know what she did after posting all those anti-male tirades on this thread, she blocked me at once. Maybe because she knows that I won't take her taunting sitting down- that I surely have an answer ready for every issue that she raised. She's afraid to read my rebuttal, hahaha...We love you, Kirsten. Please come back.April 19 at 5:44pm
BETH SUAREZ: haha!!!!wow nman arnel......love nyo n sya agad????galing ng debate nyo....nakakabuhay ng dugo!!!!April 19 at 7:32pm
ARNEL MIRASOL: Thanks, Beth. Oo nga, eh. Ako matanda na, pero parang nabuhay uli dugo ko, hahaha...Of course- love na namin sya, wala namang personalan yon. Sya lang pinersonal nya, block nya ako pagkapost ng comments nya. Hindi na binasa sagot ko. Daya nya.April 20 at 12:01am ·
BETH SUAREZ: ngiiii...madaya nga!!!April 20 at 1:27am
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